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San Antonio’s mayoral runoff candidates— Gina Ortiz Jones and Rolando Pablos—faced off for a debate on Texas Public Radio’s live call-in program “The Source” on Monday May 26, 2025, presenting competing visions for the future of the Alamo City.
Each candidate was given a chance to give open and closing statements and took questions from host David Martin Davies and TPR listeners. Below are three highlights from the debate. Listen to the full debate here.
On experience
DAVIES: Both of y'all are running to be mayor of San Antonio for the next four years. This is something new. We have not had a four-year term for a mayor in forever, as far as I can tell, looking at our history. So you will not be answerable to the voters until 2029. Neither of you have served on City Council before. There's not much of a record for people trying to figure out who to support. So why should voters trust that you're going to keep your word about how you plan to govern for the next four years?
PABLOS: Well, first of all I ask you to look at my background, my track record. Every commitment I've made, I've fulfilled — I've satisfied. Every time I've worked in public service — served the government — I have fulfilled my entire commitment.
When I was Secretary of State, I filled my entire commitment. Same thing when I was on the Public Utility Commission and as racing commissioner. So my track record of actually fulfilling my obligations is there.
The other thing is, you know, I'll ask you to take a look at the commitment that I've made to this community for 40 years. I came here in 1985. I was born in Mexico, but my parents brought us here so that we can seek the American dream. I came to San Antonio in 1985. I've been here ever since, and I've been heavily involved in this community. So take a look at my community involvement. I've posted my resume online. You can take a look at all the things I've done. I'm glad to be sitting here at the Alameda Theater. I was on the board of the Alameda whenever we were negotiating the deal with Texas Public Radio.
So you look at what I've done here, that should be an indication— looking at what I've done in government, how I fulfilled my obligations in government. And then also take a look at what I've done in business. I'm a small business owner. I've worked in the corporate world, and I've also worked in economic development. So I hope to be able to bring all that skill set to the table, which is a varied skill set, which is what San Antonio needs right now.
ORTIZ JONES: When you look at how I have spent my time in public service—certainly as an Air Force veteran, Iraq war veteran, and then most recently as the Undersecretary of the Air Force—it was also, it was about ensuring our men and women had what they needed to be successful, ensuring we were making smart investments and also recognizing the ways in which we could ensure everybody that came to us could serve to their full potential.
Folks can read a lot, actually, about many of the barriers that I was proud to knock down so that those courageous enough to protect and to serve and defend the Constitution could do so to their full potential. I'm very proud of that. One of the things I'm actually very proud of is working to bring back the citizenship, the opportunity for folks going through basic [training] at Lackland Air Force Base to be able to get their citizenship again.
I know it's important that we are thinking of everybody's talents and contributions in our community. I have also committed to doing monthly town halls, if elected. We [would] rotate this throughout the city council districts, to be able to have that face-to-face conversation, to hear directly from voters about how things are going, how they would like to see improvements.
I'm also thankful for the trust that many have given me through their endorsements, people like Secretary Julian Castro, Mayor Phil Hardberger, those who have done this job and those who know what it takes. I'm also very proudly endorsed, both by Representative Joaquin Castro as well as Representative Casar. You know, numerous state representatives, both State Senators Jose Menendez as well as Roland Gutierrez, as well as those that are actually fighting for working people and making sure that we are cutting people into these deals.
I'm proudly endorsed by the teachers. I'm proudly endorsed by the Communication Workers of America. You know, those that understand we need to, yes, bring good jobs here to San Antonio, but ensure that we're supporting working families, and I think their support for me speaks to my commitment to this community.
On Project Marvel
DAVIES: Let's talk about Project Marvel for a minute here or two. The way I've been following yall's answers— and we've been talking about these things—sounds like Gina Ortiz Jones, you're saying that you are maybe reluctant, a slow, possible, “maybe, yes, maybe,” if things work out for Project Marvel, if things are in place. And Rolando Pablos, you're more of an enthusiastic “yes” on Project Marvel. So correct me, if I'm wrong …Give me a clear idea of where are you on Project Marvel?
ORTIZ JONES: Yeah. So I am exactly where every community member that I've spoken to is, which is–how much is this going to cost? Who is going to benefit from it? And who is going to pay, right?
A lot of the discussion up until this point has been: how do we pay for it? There's still a lot of people that are, well, “what's the ‘it’ and how does the ‘it’ benefit our community?"
So I think if I was mayor, I would have started the conversation a little bit differently. I think we talk about what does the community benefit agreement look like? How can the city ensure that we are getting as much return on investment from any public monies that are used—potentially used—on this to ensure, again, this potential generational investment we can use to potentially address our generational inequities. I said, ‘Why can’t we bold?’ Why can't this be an opportunity to think about funding, for example, you know, pre-K and other needs in our community from now into eternity. Why can't we think in that way and be creative so folks can understand how this is not just, you know, an investment for tourists, but is in fact, an opportunity to bring, you know, good paying jobs here for a sufficient number of folks, and ensure that you know, as people look at again, the history of promises around some of these — they haven't necessarily come to fruition, which is, I think, why it's now important that we are not signing our city up to use city funding on something when we have so many questions that have yet to be answered.
So … I don't think you negotiate against yourself. I think it's important we have more information certainly about what the community benefit agreement is going to entail. And then we can go, we can move forward. I think you can fight to keep the Spurs, and I think you can ask tough questions to ensure our city gets a good deal. You can do all of those at the same time.
PABLOS: I’m very enthusiastic about this [Project Marvel]. This is a jobs creation program. This is an economic development program, and it needs to be viewed as that. You know, a larger convention center would mean better conventions, and convention business is good for our city.
An arena would be great. It would allow us to keep the Spurs and also continue to enjoy their tremendous economic impact that they have in this community, which is in excess of $500 million a year. It would also allow us to continue to have an Alamodome that has been delivering year after year after year. The economic impact of the Alamodome is incredible.
With the Final Four we just had $400 million of economic impact that came here. So all of that combined is a plus for this community. It's a win-win for this community.
We have to figure out how we're going to finance it. We have to figure out what it means with the entertainment district. I would want to make sure that that entertainment district is comparable to the entertainment districts that we're seeing in other parts of Texas and other cities.
We are competing with those cities for convention business, for tourism dollars. And let me tell you, one of our revenue sources as a city is sales tax, and we have to make sure that we improve our sales tax revenue and by attracting visitors here — not only in that arena — but also in, say, medical tourism and other areas of retail tourism. We can make the city a better city that can actually compete.
But look, I don't want to play the same game Seattle played when they lost the Sonics to Oklahoma City. They didn't want to invest in their arena, and they lost the team, and now it's been 14 years, and they haven't been able to recuperate from that.
I want to make sure that we keep the Spurs, but also that we create a world-class entertainment complex that allows us to bring more visitors here, and that means more revenue for us.
DAVIES: Okay, so the follow up question is the concern that many people have about Project Marvel, is that it will suck up all of the hotel, motel revenue tax dollars, the occupancy tax dollars, and all other kind of funding that we have for discretionary use in San Antonio—things like the Guadalupe Cultural Arts Center may not be able to get the funding that it usually has. Other organizations that depend upon those hotel-motel occupancy tax dollars for funding for arts and development in San Antonio, are all going to be going towards Project Marvel and leave nothing for anyone else. Have you heard that concern? Should they be concerned?
PABLOS: Well, this is the first I hear of it. But look, all those organizations that are benefiting from that right now, should step up and should ensure that the funding is not going to be taken away from them. And I'll tell you right now, if whatever it is that they're doing is yielding results for the taxpayer, for the community, then they should have nothing to fear.
But like I said earlier, you know, I want to make sure that this Project Marvel benefits the entire community. I've already proposed a plan that would benefit all 10 districts. I want to see the revenues from this project put into a sinking fund that can then be divided into 10 equal parts, so that every district can use that money for two reasons—infrastructure and public safety. And that way, we can guarantee that everyone in this community benefits from it, not just one district or two districts.
ORTIZ JONES: This is why I've been again, wanting to make sure we have as much information as possible before we are committing to city funding. Because, yes, as mentioned, you know, those resources have traditionally also gone toward major investments in our community that we have benefited from— the Tobin Center, right? Investments on Museum Reach, so there are other ways in which we might consider using these resources. I think it's important, you know, as the arts community.
This is not the first time I have heard [about the concerns]. I have routinely engaged with our arts community, which is, again, so critical and, frankly, a gift in our community, given there are nearly $5 billion contributing to our economy each year.
One of the things, for example, we were just at the Conjunto Festival at Rosedale Park and so understanding how some of these investments could ensure that Rosedale supports a Conjunto Festival that is two times, three times ... what it currently is, I think is important.
We should have those conversations again about, you know, if we invest and if this all goes toward one thing, this is what the ROI [return on investment] is. However, if we looked at some of these other things that are important to shore up, that also contribute to our economy in major ways. You know, how does that ensure that we are benefiting and supporting as many parts of this throughout our community?
So this is the time to negotiate, because a lot of what has been said is, well, it could be this, it could be that. Yeah, it could be. And let's not forget, though, what Nelson Wolff said about the deal he negotiated for the AT& T Center, which was using public resources to build the AT&T Center. He said we were supposed to get 20% of Spurs' profits every year in exchange. He said, “Ask me how much we got over 20 years? Zero.” He has not said anything different than that. So I think it's important that we fight hard for a good deal.
On the horse-drawn carriage ban
DAVIES: So the downtown horse carriages have been ordered to end operation by January 1, 2030, by the city council vote. Did you support that vote? Would you try to reverse it if you're elected mayor? Should the City Council be able to end an industry that isn't breaking any laws or endangering the public?
PABLOS: Let me make it very clear: I would bring them back immediately. I think that was unfair. They're small businesspeople. I think that there are other things that could have been done to, you know, allay the concerns of whatever the concerns were of people. But when you take government, and you go up against a cottage industry like this—a small business industry like this—I think it's unfair.
And this is exactly what's been happening. We've been frustrating our small businesses. Look at the street closures, look at the burdensome regulations that we impose on these small businesses. And this was a direct attack on small business, and I will work to reverse that immediately.
DAVIES: Gina Ortiz Jones, what did you think about ending the horse drawn carriage businesses downtown? What would you do about that, if elected mayor?
ORTIZ JONES: Yeah, I support that. I think it's important that we look at mobility options downtown to ensure that folks can get from point A to point B in as many ways as possible, which is not only good for the residents living downtown but is also good for the tourists. One of the things I think we need to make sure that we're also thinking about downtown is, again, walkability and shade and all these other things that contribute to a great downtown. And that's what I'd be focused on. I think when it comes to small businesses, you know, Centro, the folks that are in charge of the central business district, they've got a goal to have 75% of the local storefronts there filled by local small businesses. I look forward to working with them and with our small businesses to ensure we actually meet that.
And it's not just a goal on paper, but it's a goal in reality. I've met wonderful small business owners all throughout. One of them in particular is with Domesticas Unidas and she has started her own kind of soap-making business. And those are the kinds of things that I think are authentic and that we can support to have in our downtown as well.
