DEBBIE ELLIOTT, HOST:
The new movie "Materialists" is a romantic comedy with a lot on its mind. Dakota Johnson plays Lucy, a matchmaker in New York City at the top of her game.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MATERIALISTS")
DAKOTA JOHNSON: (As Lucy) My speech is, but if the girl asks for a 6-foot tall drink of water in his 40s with a salary over 500 grand and a good hairline...
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: ...You deliver.
ELLIOTT: Soon, Lucy is caught between a wealthy, suave suitor and an ex, who's a struggling actor. Celine Song, who wrote and directed the movie, is no stranger to the world of matchmaking. Back before she made it big as a playwright and filmmaker, she worked for a matchmaking service in New York. I asked her what she learned in that job.
CELINE SONG: First of all, I think I learned more about just people and what everyone's deep desires are in those six months. What I learned so much about dating is that we don't seem to have a language for love that actually fits into the way that we talk about everything else. So we're using language that is so algorithmic or, like, something that has so much to do with math and numbers as a way to describe a partner for life.
ELLIOTT: Like 6-foot-5, a credit score.
SONG: Yes, exactly, like height, weight, income, age. These are numbers that are meant to quantify what a human being is worth. Often, I'm hearing so many of these numbers in place of what we're actually talking about, which is another human being.
ELLIOTT: In other words, we're looking at those numbers instead of actually looking at whether someone's soul speaks to yours.
SONG: Exactly. And I think that it's also, like, a conversation, I think, about the way that we objectify and commodify each other in the modern world, which, of course, is now faster and better than ever because we have so much of it in our phones. In the middle of all of this, it is so difficult to then talk about the very ancient feeling, which is the mystery of love. Why somebody feels one way about one person or the other, there's no way to solve that through an algorithm or any kind of formula. It just happens.
ELLIOTT: So when we meet Lucy, she is very clinical in her approach - right? - at least for her clients. She's assessing them with those same figures that you're talking about. And then she becomes involved in this, let's call it a love triangle, right? How does her experience there challenge her thinking?
SONG: Well, I think that she believes she is an expert in dating, but she admits in the film that she's not an expert in love. And I think that as she is being challenged by this love triangle, I think she realizes that she just has to face something about herself. When you're judging others, when you're objectifying others, it ends up becoming a judgment of yourself. And it's really a journey for her about recognizing that she - just like her clients - is not merchandise, but that she's a person.
ELLIOTT: Yeah. That's a line from one of her clients, Sophie.
SONG: Yeah, and not only that. She's a person, and she's also deserving and worthy of love, which I think is something that all of us, I think, that we have real trouble believing in.
ELLIOTT: Now, what did John, who's played by Chris Evans, and Harry - Pedro Pascal - offer her?
SONG: Well, I think that they're both offering a different way of living or different ways of valuing her. I think both of those guys value Lucy but on different terms. And the thing about the way that they see Lucy and the way that they value Lucy are both seductive and meaningful in different ways. And it's not just a decision she's making between just two guys, but it's actually a decision she's making about her whole life. It's really a story about this woman's journey through her own heart.
ELLIOTT: Dating has really long been a market - right? - since even as your film, you know, illustrates, I think, since the beginning of time, right? Do you look back on, I don't know, classic rom-coms or Jane Austen novels and sort of see that storyline?
SONG: Yes, of course. I feel like I was thinking so much about Victorian romances and, of course, Jane Austen. 'Cause, of course, the first line of "Pride And Prejudice" is, I think, kind of a guiding light for "Materialists" because it's a very materialistic sentence, right? It's about how a man of means should be in want of a wife, and that's quite true about the way that the marriage market, dating market has existed forever.
The thing that I think that has gotten much harder is that it used to be that this dating market or the marriage market used to be local. It would be about the garden parties or a town. But then what you realize is, well, in 2025, the marriage market or the dating market is not on our phones on social media and, of course, in all the dating apps. So now you're not just comparing yourself to the other marriageable ladies in your town. Now it's you're comparing yourself to billions of people globally who are all also placing themselves on the dating market.
ELLIOTT: And are they really placing themselves - the real themselves - right? Like, there's this...
SONG: Of course not.
ELLIOTT: ...Whole of how you portray your image, right?
SONG: Exactly. And, I mean, think about that, too, right? It's, like, well, why would you wear the corsets?
(LAUGHTER)
ELLIOTT: Oh, no. The Botox today, corsets yesterday.
SONG: The Botox. That's exactly. Exactly. The corsets have now become Botox.
ELLIOTT: Celine Song, what drives you to write movies about romance?
SONG: Well, first of all, I think that it is a universal theme. But for me specifically, I think that being a modern person and being a - like, a working woman and all of these things, I think that all day, I need to have a lot of answers. And I feel a lot of pressure around, like, having a lot of control over my own life and destiny and everything. So I think that what I'm so attracted to about the topics of love is that I think that I just am so moved by something that does not have an answer. And to know that there is this one human domain where it is not possible to have control, and it's always asking you to surrender, I think that that really makes me feel very obsessed with it.
ELLIOTT: Celine Song is the writer and director of "Materialists," out now. Thanks so much for joining us.
SONG: Thank you so much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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