STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Lawmakers already investigating an assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump have expanded their examination to another incident. It's the arrest over the weekend of a man hiding with a rifle in the bushes at a golf course where Trump was playing. The Senate Homeland Security Committee oversees the agency, and Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin is on that committee overseeing the Secret Service. Good morning, sir.
RON JOHNSON: Good morning, Steve. Hope you're doing well.
INSKEEP: Yeah, I'm doing well. Glad to talk with you again. It's possible to cast this most recent incident as a failure for the Secret Service - or a success, I guess. How do you see it?
JOHNSON: Well, obviously you had the one agent who was alert enough to see the muzzle of the gun poking out from the fence. But the fact that you had a gun poking out from a fence, that's a failure. So I don't see it as a success. It's another spectacular security failure.
INSKEEP: Is this suggestive of a deeper problem with the Secret Service?
JOHNSON: I believe so. You know, it's interesting. I've been here 13 years. I haven't seen a problem that doesn't arise where the first solution is more funding, and we hear that drumbeat right now. But let me just give you some facts. In the last 10 years, the Secret Service's budget has increased 65%, from 2 billion to 3.3 billion. Their head count has gone up 32%, from 6,300 to 8,300. They currently have 36 protectees. That's 230 people per protectee. And they're part of a much larger organization, DHS, whose budget is $190 billion. They have 240,000 employees, and they do provide detailees from those other agencies into Secret Service when there are surges. So they don't need more resources. My guess is they need better management.
INSKEEP: Well, let's talk that through. I guess we're noting here that unlike some others, you have said you do not favor more funding for the Secret Service. You do the math. It does seem like they have a fair number of people to protect a limited number of people. But I think about the increasing threat environment. We had an academic quoted on the program just yesterday, noting that the number of what you might define as terrorist incidents in this country has gone up dramatically over the last eight years. What needs to change to handle that?
JOHNSON: Well, first of all, secure the border. You know, that's another strain on DHS' resources, but the Biden administration has thrown open the border, welcomed millions of people in here. We know there are gang members, potential terrorists involved in that. So that is going to overwhelm not only Department of Homeland Security, but the local law enforcement and everything else. So again, this is - you know, close the border, secure our nation, and, you know, get better management in these agencies.
INSKEEP: I just - I appreciate the point there, Senator Johnson. I'm obliged to mention - I was just looking at the CBP statistics this morning. The number of border crossings has dropped by more than half - dropped almost every month this year. And in any case, the people who attacked the former president in each case were not border crossings. What needs to change with the Secret Service specifically?
JOHNSON: Well, again, I think top management. But, you know, under the Biden administration, average daily encounters are over 7,000 - over 7,000. Last summer, it was over 10,000. Under Obama, a thousand a day - according to DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson, a thousand was a really bad day - 2,000, according to Obama's humanitarian crisis. So you can say, OK, yeah, he's used the executive authority he already had to open the border, and now he's closing it a little bit. But this is completely still out of control.
So, you know, again, I just - I had to push back. We do not have our border even close to under control. The Biden administration wanted an open border. They caused the problem. It's a clear and present danger to this nation, and I hope people recognize that and hold them accountable.
INSKEEP: You can argue that the level is too high. I'll just note that it is going down dramatically. What about the Secret Service, though? What - if you don't want to change the budget or the staffing, do you feel you have an idea of what they need to be doing differently?
JOHNSON: Well, again, they're not transparent with us in our current investigation. We're not getting the witnesses. We've only been able to interview 12 witnesses. The FBI has interviewed over a thousand. You know, I asked FBI Deputy Director Abbate for the transcripts of those interviews. He said - look into it, give them to me as soon as possible. We haven't even gotten one.
So, no, they need greater transparency. We need to understand, you know, how they protect these people, how they assign details. What is the type of protection for a president - the first lady versus a former president, who's the - you know, the Republican candidate for president? We're not getting that kind of information because they're being opaque. They basically don't feel like they're accountable to the American public.
INSKEEP: Ron Johnson is a Republican senator from Wisconsin. Senator Johnson, thanks for your time today - really appreciate it.
JOHNSON: Have a good day. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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