STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We begin with the man whose job she would like someday to do. Joe Biden went to the United Nations this morning for a final time as president of the United States and spoke of an inflection point for history.
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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Even in the horrors of war, there's a way forward. Things can get better. We should never forget that. I've seen that throughout my career.
INSKEEP: Now, before the president spoke, we called his deputy national security adviser, Jon Finer, and he spoke of the United States as indispensable in facing global challenges, from public health to climate change to conflict.
JON FINER: He's now engaged with these issues for more than 50 years. There have been moments where these challenges looked daunting, including when the president first came to office in the early 1970s. And I think he was optimistic about the U.S.'s ability to lead through those challenges then, and he remains just as optimistic today about the challenges that we're facing.
INSKEEP: I appreciate taking the long view. You certainly have to when you think about foreign policy. But the most immediate crisis right now, I suppose, is in the Middle East. We have reported on a series of Israeli attacks on Hezbollah in recent days - blowing up pagers and radios, bombing a leader, then widespread airstrikes yesterday, which continued into today. And at the same time, we were told the United States had been pushing Israel to help keep this war contained. Is the United States entirely on board with the Israeli approach?
FINER: So taking a half-step back, Steve, just after October 7, when Hamas attacked Israel brazenly in the south, Hezbollah launched a set of attacks against Israel in the north. And those attacks and the Israeli responses to them have continued ever since - now for almost a year.
INSKEEP: Let me just...
FINER: That led to tens of thousands...
INSKEEP: Let me stop you to note - I mean, I'm aware of that. I went to Northern Israel and reported on that. But is the U.S. on board with the Israeli approach now, if you're trying to keep the war contained?
FINER: So that is where the tens of thousands of Israelis are being forced to leave their homes. And Israel's military actions - we very much see them in the context of trying to create conditions for people to be able to return home. That said, we've also been clear that we don't believe a full-scale war in Northern Israel is in the interests of Israel, the people who live there or the Lebanese people. And so we are working diplomatically to try to contain the current escalation but also to create conditions to allow people in both Lebanon and Israel to return home and to normal lives.
INSKEEP: Again, I'm just telling you - I've been in Northern Israel under that rocket fire. I get it. My question is, do you believe Israel's taking a course now that successfully eliminates the risk of a wider war?
FINER: We understand why they're taking the actions they're taking. I don't think any country would tolerate tens of thousands of their civilians being driven from their homes. And we do not believe a wider conflict in the north is in their interest or in Lebanon's interest, and so we are working to de-escalate the situation. And I think you'll see a lot of conversations and actions about this very topic during the course of the week.
INSKEEP: You know, I was talking to - that's good to know. I was talking to somebody last week about the pager attacks. And I said, you know, Hezbollah is designated a terror group by the United States - not nice people. And this person responded, yes, but also think about this; people across Lebanon had their faces maimed, their eyes blown out, and they're going to be walking around for decades as a reminder of what Israel did on that particular day. Do you think that this approach is conducive to peace in the long run?
FINER: I mean, again, as I said, we are quite concerned about escalation in the north. We have been concerned about this since the very beginning of the conflict that launched on October 7, when Hamas attacked Israel. And the reality is one of our goals, in addition to de-escalating that conflict, in addition to supporting Israel in the efforts to defeat Hamas in Gaza, has been preventing this conflict from spreading to other theaters, across other borders. That continues to be a goal for us.
We've been working, as you well know, diplomatically to try to de-escalate the situation in Gaza and to improve the humanitarian conditions there. We've been working just as hard for now more than a year - for almost a year, I should say - to try to prevent this conflict from spreading into Lebanon. That continues to be a primary focus of our efforts. And, you know, I'm not going to sit here and speak to any particular incidents because there have been incidents that have gone both directions across that border, and the primary goal right now is to try to de-escalate that situation and prevent it from spreading into a wider war.
INSKEEP: Just got about 20 seconds - does a Gaza cease-fire have to wait until after the U.S. election?
FINER: Oh, no, not necessarily. I mean, we've been trying to secure a cease-fire and a hostage deal - because those are clearly quite linked, and understandably so, in the eyes of Israeli leaders - for many months now. And we would take that deal as soon as both sides would be willing to accept it, and we encourage them to do so.
INSKEEP: Jon Finer is deputy national security adviser. Thanks for taking the time, sir. I really appreciate it.
FINER: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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