SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The play "Oh, Mary!" makes its Broadway debut tonight. The story's main character is Mary Todd Lincoln, the wife of President Abraham Lincoln. But in this play, Mary is reimagined as a raging alcoholic with cabaret dreams, and Lincoln is an evil, closeted gay man. You heard me right. The New York Times calls it gleefully tasteless, and It's Been A Minute host Brittany Luse calls it one of the funniest theater shows she has ever seen. She sat down with its creator and star, Cole Escola, ahead of its Broadway debut.
BRITTANY LUSE, BYLINE: You said in an interview with Paper that you were obsessed with first ladies as a child.
COLE ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: Why were you obsessed with them?
ESCOLA: Obsessed with the stupid title - it means nothing. What does that mean, first lady?
LUSE: Wife of.
ESCOLA: Yeah, exactly. In the same family of, like, what makes me laugh about commercials marketed to mothers, like Swiffer WetJet. It's just sort of, like, a faux soothing, feminine straitjacket. Historically, the first lady was always like - she picks out the China, and she hosts a luncheon for hungry children. And that's so stupid and also enraging, too. And it's such a weird nonrole role.
LUSE: And so you created this character who's the leading role...
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: ...But also...
ESCOLA: She's trapped in this role that she's wrong for.
LUSE: Very wrong for...
ESCOLA: Very wrong for.
LUSE: ...In a beautiful way...
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: ...But very wrong for it.
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: I mean, I know this idea, "Oh, Mary!" - you creating this character out of Mary Todd Lincoln, it started because of an email that you sent yourself.
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: ...In 2009.
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: So you committed to the bit. But I want to know more about why you envision Mary as this alcoholic, wannabe cabaret singer and Lincoln as this, like, evil, gay schemer, who is, like, trying to kind of, like, ruin Mary's life and happiness (laughter).
ESCOLA: Yeah. Well, he's just concerned with appearances. His reputation is at stake because he's a president during the war, and so everyone is really angry with him. So he was really not very popular. And you know, like, the gay rumors about Lincoln - I thought this very, like, frustrated, closeted man, that was interesting to me. And then Mary is just me. It's all based on me and my feelings, and all of my characters are some aspect of me that I'm ashamed of or curious about.
LUSE: Did you retrofit Mary to suit you and an aspect of your personality, or was there something about Mary - because she was, like, Abraham Lincoln's wife? Like, what about Mary specifically made you be like, ah, yes?
ESCOLA: At first, it was just like, I could project myself onto this woman that I knew nothing about. Eventually, I learned, you know, that she would go on shopping sprees and the country...
LUSE: For real?
ESCOLA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She would come to New York and go on these, like, insane shopping sprees, and the country was mad at her for this. And...
LUSE: 'Cause they were in the middle of, like, a war (laughter).
ESCOLA: They were in the middle of a war. I read about that or heard about that, and I was like, what was she supposed to do? Like, I, in a funny way, related to, like, so she's trapped at home. She can't do anything. She's like, well, I want to go to New York and go shopping. And then the fact that everyone was so annoyed with her was something that I related to - that feeling of everyone around me hates me. I'm being annoying. I'm too much, especially, like, you know, being too much, being queer. I'll let the audience connect the dots there.
LUSE: It makes me think about your performance background before "Oh, Mary!" You started out doing performance art as older women characters. What is it about older women that calls to you?
ESCOLA: It's never something that I sat down and made the choice to do. I just sort of follow what tickles me or what makes me feel something. And as a kid, I was raised a lot by my grandmother and adored her, wanted to emulate her. She would have lunch with her friends on Mondays. And so all of third grade, I faked sick every Monday so that I could have lunch with my grandma and her friends, Ruby and Shirley and Grace. Those are the people that I loved and loved me growing up.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with, like, femininity as well. Like, I've always been very fem. And the way femininity is allowed or, like, forced on people is both funny and sad and interesting to me. And especially with older women, it's like, OK, now you're allowed this brand of femininity, and it's doilies and warm, comforting stew and rice pudding. And - yeah.
LUSE: In many ways, as women age, like you said, the sort of femininity that you have...
ESCOLA: The package that they're allowed to, like - yeah.
LUSE: The package diminishes.
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: The package of femininity that you're allowed to access...
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: ...It diminishes in many ways. But I could see how there's also similarly - like, in many of, like, the older woman characters that you've played, that there is that similarly freeing aspect of, like, you know, but I also care less what you think.
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: And so we'll just see what comes out of that.
ESCOLA: Yeah.
LUSE: There's something kind of freeing about that.
ESCOLA: Yeah, also, like I loved my grandmother's stories. She had Alzheimer's. But there was a while when it was early on where she would just tell me the same stories over and over again. And I loved it. It was sad, obviously, because as a child, I didn't fully understand why she was repeating. But I also then felt a responsibility not to embarrass her by pretending it was my first time listening to her stories and - I don't know, just the way she's - like, females are allowed to feel and talk about their feelings. And that was always, like, so interesting to me.
LUSE: You know, you've had other roles where your character's gender is kind of fluid. I think about your character - characters, but you have played one character who was moving through so many different states in "Search Party," which is...
ESCOLA: Oh, thanks.
LUSE: ...A phenomenal show for those of you who haven't seen it. But a lot of your roles do include some version of an evil lady (laughter).
ESCOLA: Yeah. Yeah.
LUSE: I wonder, what about this gender play with, like, truly heinous but funny women characters - what about that speaks to you artistically?
ESCOLA: I think, again, it comes down to femininity and, like, who's allowed to own their femininity and who's not. Like, for example, "The Little Mermaid" - Ariel is sort of accidentally feminine. Like, she isn't aware of, like, her femaleness and her girlishness. She's just, like, swimming around, and I want to be in love. Whereas, like, Ursula owns her femininity. And she's putting on lipstick, and she's, like, transforming herself into Vanessa and, like, her...
LUSE: (Imitating Ursula) Body language.
ESCOLA: ...Body language. And, like, for some reason, a woman owning her femininity is evil. Like, women are only supposed to be accidentally feminine. Like, it's just supposed to be like, oh, oops, I'm wearing a dress. It's not supposed to be like, I'm wearing a dress, and I feel sexy in this dress. That's evil. And so, as a little queer kid wanting to be feminine, I was drawn to people that owned their femininity, and that's typically villainous women. I think. I don't know. That's pop psychology armchair.
LUSE: (Laughter).
DETROW: That was Cole Escola, creator and star of "Oh, Mary!" which opens on Broadway tonight, in conversation with our colleague, Brittany Luse, host of NPR's It's Been A Minute.
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