A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: I've been thinking a lot about authenticity lately. That word is thrown around so much right now that I'm afraid it's losing some of its power. But regardless, we all seem to be craving it, right? Real interactions with people. Authentic connections. The rough, messy truth of things. It's definitely one of the big reasons I started Wild Card, and it's what I want in my own life. I want it in my relationships, but I also want it in the music, the films and the books I consume, all the things.
Every artist is after authenticity in some way, but the thing I love about Kacey Musgraves is that she just is it. From the beginning of her career, the songs she wrote were just about the life she was living and how she saw the world. She sang about falling in love with fellow country musician Ruston Kelly and getting married to him. And then later on, she sang about falling out of love with him and getting divorced. But she also sings about smoking pot and queer relationships. And she's the kind of artist who will put a disco song on one of her albums and not give two hoots if you think she's not country enough, thank you very much.
Musgraves is making her art her way and she's making it for herself. That other people dig it, that's some sort of major fringe benefit that has put her at the top of the charts and won her album of the year at the Grammys in 2019 (and it was only the fourth country album to ever get that honor). Musgraves' latest album is Deeper Well and she's on tour now.
This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.
Question 1: What's something about the place you grew up that you couldn't wait to leave behind?
Kacey Musgraves: First of all, I'm going to say that I had a wonderful childhood, but I did grow up in a very conservative part of East Texas.
Rachel Martin: Tell me the name of the town.
Musgraves: Golden. It's really small. There is a post office, but there's not a school. It's not big enough for a school. So I think growing up there, it's different than growing up in a city where there's, like, a million different viewpoints and there's a million different religions and a million different cultures and languages. There's a lack of diversity where I grew up. And I just had this urge to see the world and travel – that's when I started really understanding that everyone is the same, you know? And I wouldn't have gotten that if I would have stayed there.
Martin: I get that. I came from a small town in Idaho. I totally felt that too. And I can't figure out how I knew any different, you know? Because it was just my whole world and my family had been, like, from the same place for five, six generations.
Musgraves: Right.
Martin: Did you have family who lived in other places? Like, how did it come into your imagination that there was a different way to live?
Musgraves: I think it's just a natural curiosity. And thinking that really anything is possible. And that I don't have to do it the same way as everyone else.
Question 2: Was there a bedrock truth in your life that you came to find out wasn't true?
Musgraves: This also gets to where I grew up and preconceived notions about certain things. For instance, the acceptance of people in the queer community was kind of nonexistent where I grew up. I could count on one hand the amount of times I encountered an openly gay person. That's not to say that I encountered people who weren't closeted. But, there was a majority view of, "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." That kind of mentality.
So I left Texas with this kind of idea that, "Well, people choose to be that way." And when I moved to Nashville, I started making friends in that community. And I had a boyfriend at the time who did me a huge favor. He was from a completely different upbringing than me, a liberal family in upstate New York. He had a ton of gay friends and he just sat me down one day and we had a real hard and honest conversation about it.
He was like, "Listen, you do not have the right perspective on this." He just helped me completely open up my eyes and see and I was just like, "Damn, I'm so glad that I had the opportunity to get out of where I came from, and to have my eyes and my heart open to this really wonderful community, and they've made me way more well rounded."
Martin: You talk about queer relationships in your art. I mean, that's clearly intentional. Do you feel sort of an obligation to use your platform that way?
Musgraves: Well, one of the best compliments that I've ever received in terms of my music and who I am in the world is that occasionally people will come up to me and say, "Hey, I grew up in a really small town like you did, and I've always loved country music, but I've never felt invited to that party." Honestly, it really wasn't about ever pushing buttons. It just was me observing what was happening around me and doing my job as a songwriter to put that in the form of a song.
And to me, country music is always about real people, real stories. And why wouldn't it continue to evolve?
Question 3: Does time feel like a positive or negative force in your life right now?
Musgraves: Honestly, the passage of time is something that like, really f***s me up.
Martin: Really?
Musgraves: Yeah. There's something so melancholy about it. Just seeing your grandparents get older, your parents get older, relationships changing. Looking in the mirror and seeing wrinkles that weren't there before. It's really trippy, like how it moves and bends.
I'm just thankful. I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful for the time I have. And I do feel like life keeps getting better as I get older. That's something that everyone that's older than you tells you, and you're like, "Yeah, whatever." But, I do feel that.
I'm in a period of time where this chapter is not defined by anyone else but me. And I don't know what's going to come next. And that's rare for me. I feel like I'm usually jumping to the next relationship because I love companionship and it's just been really nice to like, slow down time and enjoy exactly where I'm at. And enjoy the not-knowing of what or who might be next, you know?
Martin: That's such a lovely answer. Because it'll come.
Musgraves: Yeah, and it's funny, even in terms of looks, you know, we see pictures of ourselves five years ago and we're like, "Damn, I wish I would've known how great or how in shape I was then. I was so down on myself."
Rachel: Kacey, we are the youngest we will ever be right now!
Musgraves: Right now! I know. I hate it. I'm just kidding. When I kick off my shows I'm like, "Hey, everybody, we're existing right now at the same exact time on this crazy planet in the middle of this crazy universe. It's a miracle that we are here at the same time. And this moment right now, who you're with tonight, what you're going through in your life, what I'm going through in my life, is never going to be the same as it is right now. So, let's just be as present as possible."
It's just a nice reminder, like, let's put our phones down. I mean, you know, take some cute pictures, get the good angles, tag me [laughs]. But let's be present.
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